If you don't receive an activation email after registration, then please post in the help and support section with your screen name

This mod will NOT work with a pirated copy of Mount and Blade Warband!



Check out the updated WIKI and register your interest in HELPING

Author Topic: Value of uptier Vale cavalry  (Read 895 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Seppyno

  • Guest
Value of uptier Vale cavalry
« on: May 01, 2018, 04:24:12 AM »
Trained an army of about 200 Vale riders and these guys are bad-ass, able to flatten most armies within seconds of contact. They take some casualties, but they're relatively cheap to replace, being just 4 tiers in.

Running into an issue when transitioning them to Vale Knights though, which makes me hesitate to going for the Knights of the Gate. The uptiered knightly cavalry seem to perform considerably worse than the Vale Riders themselves. Despite having better equipment (apart from 2 less body armor) and considerably better stats.

They just get swamped in melee by reinforcements. Uselessly trying to shove away infantry within make-out distance of their ankles with 9 foot long broom-handles. They've got perfectly good swords, why not use them? I've seen dismounted knights still using their 16 blunt lances rather than swapping to sword and board.

I'd be down to field an army of Gate knights if they perform significantly better than the riders, not necessarily AS efficiently considering they're a luxury item, but definitely not less efficiently. Considering the Vale Knight actually underperforms compared to the riders, I have my doubts

For comparisons sake (ball-parking here), assuming you train from peasant, a single vale rider costs ~570 (11400 for my army), a vale knight ~2442 (488400), and a knight of the gate ~4642 (928400).

I've tried cycle charging, that still yields worse casualty ratios than just using the riders to smash the front line then mosh-pit the faces off anyone that gets close. Can I tell cav to put away the pointy sticks and use their butter-knives after the initial charge? Is it possible to make it so that lances have literally no durability, breaking either after the first couched attack or swing in melee. Or should I just give up the Knights of the Gate dream as wholly inefficient as it'd just lead to worse casualty ratios?

Offline Indo95

  • Global Moderator
  • Knight
  • *****
  • Posts: 381
  • Reputation: 4
    • View Profile
  • Faction: The Vale
Re: Value of uptier Vale cavalry
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2018, 03:17:44 PM »
You should make the vale knights into a different group and tell them to use sidearms after their initial charge, however I usually see them change weapons on their own. Maybe you should make combat ai smarter. I find Vale knights to be worth the upgrade.

Offline Montblanc

  • Squire
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Reputation: 5
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Targaryen
Re: Value of uptier Vale cavalry
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2018, 03:25:14 AM »
Hmm, tried using the weapons commands like Indo suggests? I would try his suggestions first and then decide if you are better off with the initial setup of riders or if you should simply adjust your tactics to the new tier troops.
~Every good king needs two sisters by his side, a hot sister, and a dark sister~

Seppyno

  • Guest
Re: Value of uptier Vale cavalry
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2018, 01:40:03 AM »
Yeah, I've tried using the Z key to make the knights switch to sidearms after finding out about it. But it doesn't seem to do anything, either in melee or out of it. Use blunt weapons works, I've seen riders put away their swords and swap to fists, doff shields works. But telling my troops to use sidearms doesn't.

It's frustrating, I want these higher tier troops to be useful, because they clearly can be, their lances are effective in initial charge; however once they're in melee they feel terrible to use because they die in droves, desperately clinging to lances when they should be using swords.

Offline Montblanc

  • Squire
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Reputation: 5
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Targaryen
Re: Value of uptier Vale cavalry
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2018, 10:59:11 AM »
You can also use weapons orders by dispatching orders before fights. But if the mod is bugged on the core of weapons related orders then idk. Maybe try adapting how you deploy them, Cavalry with lance weapons imo usually does better than swords using ones, but that also depends on what kind of units you're up against.
~Every good king needs two sisters by his side, a hot sister, and a dark sister~

Offline Riven

  • Global Moderator
  • Squire
  • *****
  • Posts: 189
  • Reputation: 17
  • I will take what is mine with fire and blood
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Targaryen
Re: Value of uptier Vale cavalry
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2018, 02:42:23 PM »
Yeah, I've tried using the Z key to make the knights switch to sidearms after finding out about it. But it doesn't seem to do anything, either in melee or out of it. Use blunt weapons works, I've seen riders put away their swords and swap to fists, doff shields works. But telling my troops to use sidearms doesn't.

It's frustrating, I want these higher tier troops to be useful, because they clearly can be, their lances are effective in initial charge; however once they're in melee they feel terrible to use because they die in droves, desperately clinging to lances when they should be using swords.

The last iteration of the vales knights, knights of the gate, uses swords again, the only problem is that they need a lot of experience. My word is, try to keep a good balance between riders and knights, having them in 2 different groups, one for initial battle and riders for melee time, and every time a knight upgrades to knight of the gate, upgrade one rider to knight.

Lores

  • Guest
Re: Value of uptier Vale cavalry
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2018, 07:59:36 AM »
I've reached the point, where I have about a dozen Vale Knights now and the issue is still there and even on highest ai...

I tested it by separating them into an own group and having them charge infantry and they really stick to their lances... once they're unhorsed they use the sword... I tried to look through the files and also tried savegameeditor... if I knew, where this weird AI-bug is found in the files... I am assuming that it is the absurd length of the custom lances (haven't seen any other unit with comparable pokers and the banners are a bit tricky anyway (player can't couch them, can't poke from horse but on foot...poke does bashing dmg, even though there's a pointed steel-tip, etc)) combined with the AI-prompt I found in the module.ini: "Use weapon length for decision = 1" (can't remember the exact phrasing) and I think, the lance is so absurdly long, that the VK are tricked into believing it is better?... or they just have a buggy AI... but anyway, plz someone point me in the direction where to look for it, because like that it's really frustrating....