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Author Topic: Armor and Iron Flesh Useless  (Read 2527 times)

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Offline Apocal

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Re: Armor and Iron Flesh Useless
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2018, 12:46:53 PM »
Another example would be knights depending onthe faction could be optamized to fight other knights, masses of light troops or med troops. This would provide i think a bit more of a diverse troop tree, spicing it up a bit and limiting the cases of many units being simply better versions of the previous giving one little incentive not to upgrade except cost.

This allows a place for a whole varietly of weapons to have a niche.

If you can take out heavily armored troop types, you can positively reave guys with less armor. Even better if you are wearing heavy armor yourself, because giving people close to 100 armor (80-90 + higher quality + lordly gauntlets) in the body will make them walking tanks. It will also mean the actual fights will take forever to resolve if you're going for a quantity approach rather than quality.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 12:50:24 PM by Apocal »

Offline DWA

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Re: Armor and Iron Flesh Useless
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2018, 04:30:47 PM »
Another example would be knights depending onthe faction could be optamized to fight other knights, masses of light troops or med troops. This would provide i think a bit more of a diverse troop tree, spicing it up a bit and limiting the cases of many units being simply better versions of the previous giving one little incentive not to upgrade except cost.

This allows a place for a whole varietly of weapons to have a niche.

If you can take out heavily armored troop types, you can positively reave guys with less armor. Even better if you are wearing heavy armor yourself, because giving people close to 100 armor (80-90 + higher quality + lordly gauntlets) in the body will make them walking tanks. It will also mean the actual fights will take forever to resolve if you're going for a quantity approach rather than quality.

typically weapons good against armor would have slower speed.

So a halberd with high piercing damage and slow attack would be good against heavy armor. This troop would be vulnerable to for example another troop with a sword. The Very highest end troops/equipment should make you or the troop into a tank. They should be scarce but on a medieval battlefield the finest plate armors bid make the wearer practically a tank.

A maul would be another weapon that would gain a niche if provided a heavily armoured target.
Currently and in most mods there ends up being a singular best weapon. A armour upgrade would allow there to be many best weapons, it would depend on what you are trying to do.

Regardless the values for actual plate armor should exceed the mail armor and they don't.

Offline Apocal

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Re: Armor and Iron Flesh Useless
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2018, 12:56:57 PM »
typically weapons good against armor would have slower speed.

So a halberd with high piercing damage and slow attack would be good against heavy armor. This troop would be vulnerable to for example another troop with a sword. The Very highest end troops/equipment should make you or the troop into a tank. They should be scarce but on a medieval battlefield the finest plate armors bid make the wearer practically a tank.

A maul would be another weapon that would gain a niche if provided a heavily armoured target.

Just so I'm sure you're understanding me, I'm talking about how the game actually plays out with high armor values. In-game, a troop with heavy armor in the 80-100 range doesn't have to worry about a swordsman because swords virtually always deal cutting damage. I messed around with armor settings on my install of this mod so I am not sure they are still the same but the defaults make cutting damage the worst type (both soak- and reduction-wise). Power strike helps somewhat, but once you get up to ~96 armor (IME) one-handed swords deal negligible damage, so little they don't even stop your attacks at times. You can kill them easy-peasy in exchange for a single-digit bit of health, if even that.

With a maul (or any weapon in a similar vein), it gets worse because even if a maul or sledgehammer is slow as hell, it can crush through blocks.

Also, low-tier troops in most mods have terrible weapon proficiency, bad enough that even if their weapons are theoretically faster due to stats, they are slower in action because a player has much higher relevant weapon proficiency.

Currently and in most mods there ends up being a singular best weapon. A armour upgrade would allow there to be many best weapons, it would depend on what you are trying to do.

Regardless the values for actual plate armor should exceed the mail armor and they don't.

With higher armor values, the number of viable weapons decreases because you might wind up facing a tank -- and if your weapon can't break through the reduction threshold, you might as well throw it down in exchange for fists for all the good it will do you. This mod isn't really about end-game weapon diversity either; you need to have weapons capable of killing wights and white walkers or else you are completely screwed.

Offline DWA

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Re: Armor and Iron Flesh Useless
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2018, 02:52:28 AM »
Ya i see what your are saying. I do feel there should be a little bit higher top end though.

Offline Apocal

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Re: Armor and Iron Flesh Useless
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2018, 07:43:02 AM »
Personally, I think so too, but you really need to adjust the entire mod around it as a factor. Look at how many one-handed sword and board troops there are in the factions' troop trees. There aren't very many troop types with high-end piercing or blunt weapons other than companions or uniques.  It could be cool to see something like the fight against the pit-fighter in Meereen, in ADWD:


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